deweber design - Latest Comments in sunday night after church (day late, dollar short)

Re: sunday night after church (day late, dollar short)

Gretchin — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:04:47 -0000

Hey Adam,

Thanks for the encouragement on my blog. I read bit of your blog. You have a wife named Gretchen. Very cool! Love the name! lol

You seem to be doing pretty good with the challenge!

Keep it up!

Gretchin

Re: sunday night after church (day late, dollar short)

Brian Lovell — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:58:15 -0000

Adam, It is good to talk with you. Thanks for responding well.

On the first paragraph, I am in total agreement with you. People do get silly over things that don't matter. Musical style being a big one. I grew up in a music teacher's home and have an appreciation for a wide variety of music. I also can speak middle ages English, (Thee, Thy, Thou, etc.) but find it tedious. I don't care about either.

Sadly, I have also seen a trivializing of the core values in many churches, and in one I love dearly. These places attempt to be mainstream and "groovy"(Hip, cool, rad, stellar, depending on which "cutting edge we're on...) by watering down their message while trying to improve their approach. This is the pattern of nearly every great movement of God since the beginning. People start to think they have something to offer God (other than their obedience) and then get in the way. They spend much time and treasure in trying to look good to the world around them, rather than seeking God's will and doing what He wants them to do.

I will say I question the whole thing about "unconvinced" people coming to "connect with God" on some Sunday because of a "dynamic worship experience". I am wondering if this "connection with God" through some musical experience is what used to be called "salvation".

If that is the case, what will happen when a better "experience" comes along? Is that all there is to a life with Christ? Do those who come to get their fix on "worship" every week live their lives the same way they have been, except now we say we live for Jesus and have "great worship experiences"?

The "good book" thing; I am a reader. I sometimes read multiple books per week, and have gleaned a lot of wisdom and knowledge from many sources. I did not mean any sarcasm by that, nor that the Bible was the only source to gain wisdom and knowledge. However, the Bible continues to be marginalized because we seem to find it too difficult. If we believe what we say we believe, then the Bible is the word of God given to us to search and learn from. So many professing Christians run around wanting "God's will for their lives", trying to "experience Him in a mighty way" when they don't read the book that God wrote and gave us. Instead they will read the latest and greatest author on a particular subject, because "well, you know, the culture is different now than it was way back in 2005" or something....(that was a joke. Not sarcasm :)

Anyway, your last paragraph is something I've told people, almost verbatim. The message must stay the same, but the method of delivery must be relevant. Unfortunately, the message often gets thrown out along with the "old school" method. I think we need to be careful in thinking that we, somehow, need to "help God "communicate with the culture He's trying to engage". He knows more about that culture than I do....

I've checked in on you for a while and am glad things are going well. I think of your mama and papa quite often, and hope things are well there.

I am glad to keep the discussion open. If you want to take this off the blog, your host should have my e-mail and phone number. Or, we can keep rambling here.

God Bless and Keep You!
Brian Lovell

Re: sunday night after church (day late, dollar short)

adamdeweber — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:19:03 -0000

hey brian. first off, thanks for checking in to read my blog. we haven't gotten the chance to chat since i got back into town, and it's cool that you would come by and join the conversation.

regarding point #7: i'm not talking about a situation in which the core values of a church are becoming trivialized. that happens sometimes, and it sucks. sometimes it's healthy for the church and the individual when they part ways on good terms. people leave churches for all different reasons. point number seven is referring to people who leave over "a small disagreement or a shift in musical style." i've witnessed this phenomenon many times in my life, both as a lay person and a staff member. i will, however, offer some thoughts about some of the other things you said.

re: musical style: god doesn't care about musical style, but the posture of your heart, which should reflect what your life looks like all week long. i think we agree on that. but people who don't believe in god, but who have trusted somebody enough to accept their invitation, and who are perhaps uneasy with the idea of entering a place that they've heard so many weird things about on tv...they do care about style. when someone who is already a christ follower says to me, "great music on sunday," i don't really care...(that sounds harsh i know) because i didn't pick the songs for them. i picked them with the thought of helping as many people as possible (believers and especially unconvinced people) be more open or ready to connect with god that day. that's why we learn new songs that have a more modern style, and it's why we play old songs with a newer, more approachable feel, and it's why we often sub in words like "You, Your, when" for words like "Thou, Thine, whenst." when those songs are old, we'll still sing the ones that still help people focus their hearts on christ, and we'll stop singing the ones that no longer connect. and all the while, we'll keep learning new songs that do the same thing.

re: a great book: please forgive me if the sarcasm i picked up was not intended. what i think i read is that any book besides the bible is totally worthless for garnering any wisdom, insight, or information. is that really what you meant? again, please forgive me if i misread. that was not my intention.

re: god doesn't change: we agree on this, too. but the way that cultures communicate, give and receive information, internalize truth, interact...that is all in constant flux. the same was true in the days of the early church. look at paul's letters: he uses different styles, illustrations, and language...and even sites non-religious sources...depending on whom he is talking to, based on the communication paradigm of their particular culture. the message is the life-changing freedom offered through god's grace, by faith in jesus christ. constant. the method by which the message is communicated varies based on which culture he's trying to engage.

i appreciate your candor. let's keep the discussion open. it's good for us.

adam

Re: sunday night after church (day late, dollar short)

Brian Lovell — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:50:03 -0000

Hi Adam,

Regarding Point #7,

What I don't understand; and what's downright disturbing is that people can STAY in a church where they've invested blood, sweat, tears, money, prayer, love, emotions, etc., when said church is trivialized so much that its only concern is how "dynamic" the worship is, or how well it "markets" itself for Sunday morning productions, er, service.

This has nothing to do with music styles, what you wear, drums or no drums, blah, blah, blah. (I like "cuttind edge" AND I like tradition...) It has everything to do with the heart of God and what He wants. The whole argument over "style" is two sides of the same coin. What I want, vs. what YOU want. It is symptomatic of the much deeper problem of removing God from the throne and replacing Him with whoever happens to be in the majority that day. Welcome to the Church of America.

I've been reading "A great book" on this very subject. It's called the Bible.
Something I notice about God; He doesn't change, regardless of the current trends.

May I humbly suggest we ALL spend more time with Him, more time in prayer, and more time asking God to show us what HE wants instead of worrying about the mood of the moment. Remember; Today's "cutting edge" is tomorrow's "old school".

Blessings to you. Oh, and uh, "catch ya on da flip flop."

Brian Lovell